PC(USA) leaders report on talks with ECO

Agreement to ‘whole truth-telling,’ presbytery-to-presbytery discernment comes out of WCRC-mediated meeting

October 16, 2017

St. Louis

A trio of Office of the General Assembly (OGA) leaders briefed the 300-strong Mid Council Leaders Gathering here Sunday (October 15) evening on the progress – or lack thereof – of conversations between the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians (ECO) over the sometimes chaotic process of departure of churches from the PC(USA) to ECO.

“We spent two days [September 27-28] having deep conversations about governance, ecclesiology and ecumenism,” said General Assembly Stated Clerk J. Herbert Nelson, II, of a meeting between PC(USA) and ECO leaders that was convened by the World Communion of Reformed Churches. “The conversations have given us some clarity, but we are not done.”

According to Laurie Griffith, OGA’s director for constitutional services, reported that in the last five years, 303 PC(USA) congregations have departed for ECO – though not all have been formally dismissed by their PC(USA) presbyteries. They represent 52 percent of all dismissals in that time period – most of the rest were dismissed to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church – but the 121,000 members of those 303 churches represent 73 percent of the total number of members dismissed.

“We have two very different understandings of ecclesiology,” said the Rev. Robina Winbush, associate stated clerk for ecumenical relations. “For the PC(USA), the locus of mission is the presbyteries, which are deeply invested in their congregations,” she explained. “ECO sees congregations as the locus of mission with the presbytery as a voluntary organization of support.”

One “agreement” struck at the September meeting is that if a PC(USA) congregation wants to leave, the ECO presbytery will talk with the corresponding PCUSA presbytery. This new presbytery-to-presbytery deliberation means, Winbush said, that discernment about leaving will not place the congregation in the middle of an adversarial relationship and, especially, in civil court against its presbytery.

“Departure will no longer be automatic,” Winbush said, “but will be a matter of discernment between presbyteries.”

The PC(USA) and ECO also agreed “to seek to tell the whole truth about each other” rather than the selective, self-serving “truth” Winbush said both sides have been guilty of in the past. And they agreed to, as much as possible, seek solutions outside the civil courts.

The WCRC, which admitted ECO to its membership in 2014 against the wishes of the PC(USA). It has agreed to attempt to mediate the current tensions. 

The PC(USA) leaders said they are cautiously optimistic, with a decided emphasis on caution.

“Committees on Ministry must do due diligence about receiving ministers who may have pastored churches that left the denomination,” Winbush said.

Nelson agreed. “We have to tighten up our own system … lest presbyteries and congregations are turned upside down. I know what this agreement is, but I also know what our history is, so we must have serious examination of prospective calls to pastors,” he said. “There is no certainty that we won’t have to deal with these [dismissal-related] issues again.”

  1. My last PCUSA congregation went to ECOwith many shenanigans that supported the ministers position when he arrived: to leave PCUSA. The week of the vote it was evident that lies and hate ruled. PCUSA lost. Many members left. Some were able to go to other PCUSA churches, but most were stranded with no local church in our preferred denomination. I was never asked to delete my name. I was never notified it was deleted. I suspect my name was carried to ECO without my consent. People who hate other people because of how GOD made them do not listen to GOD but want to wrap themselves in the salvation provided by GOD through Christ. I hate not going to church. My daughter in another state in the South has the same problem. In my emotional mind the Church has betrayed us, not GOD, but the Church.

    by Dee

    February 22, 2018

  2. PCUSA has been hemorrhaging members for quite a long time. It looks to me as if they have been infiltrated by liberal progressives who change the rules so that a minority can dictate to the majority of members. The result is they who disagree vote with their feet and often take whole congregations with them.

    by Frank Wasmer

    January 1, 2018

  3. I think it’s time to recognize the apostasy going on in the PCUSA and repent of those sins. The fact of the matter is that Christians do not want to be a church that does not recognize what sin is. Let them go in peace and with their buildings. I was involved with dissolving a church and selling its building and I assure you – it’s a very long process and very expensive as the building must be maintained as it’s sitting idle.

    by Anonymous

    October 23, 2017

  4. It seems that from the beginning Christians have not gotten along with each other as commanded by Jesus or urged by the Apostle Paul. We are like a city on a hillside that everyone can see. What they see is supposed to be our good works. What they often see is division and discord. The spirit of Jesus' prayer in the Garden we read in John's Gospel, Paul's extended plea in his letter to the Philippian church, and the Belhar Confession lead us to see as a high priority of Christian communion that we are unified, of one mind, and loving. Instead of instead of finding fewer ways to divide ourselves, we find more. Historically, we Presbyterians divide and then realize that we have more in common than we previously thought and reunite. Why not leave out the nasty middle stuff? I asked Bryce Little the other day what he saw as the future of our denomination. He was optimistic. I asked if he thought the worst of the departures to ECO was over. He thought so and said that he believes there will be a reuniting. I said, "They will miss us?" He replied, "We will miss each other."

    by Ron Schooler

    October 21, 2017

  5. I have so many problems with this article, I don't know where to start! In summary, I've yet to see a departure that was "automatic" (haha).., presbyteries are already heavily involved in any dismissal process and it hasn't seemed to help..., and why is it always the pastors fault? Haha If we want to tell the whole truth, let's start with ourselves telling the truth within our denomination(s). A diverse group (theologically) lives within the PCUSA..., some (usually conservative) churches might get to the place of feeling like it can't stay any longer and serve its constituents well due to conflict about denominational decisions or policies., the pastor sometimes is actually caught in the middle.., and we treat the whole scenario as if it should never happen! Change happens, ministries evolve, transitions are needed. .., so what, let them go! Come up with a national financial formula of departure that's manageable to both, verify the angst is real, and set up a payment plan! Time to move on!

    by John Warren

    October 17, 2017

Leave a comment